Comments on the Plan are kinda hard to find!...brb...
quote
RIGHT NOW, the National Park Service, which has heretofore cherished Yosemite, seems intent on converting this temple into a profit center, with pricey hotels, scant camping, few modest accommodations, wider roads to field bigger diesel buses, ecological roadside mayhem, atmospheric damage and requiring people who want to celebrate Yosemite Valley to park outside the park in various still unspoiled places that are soon to be paved. This is all to exploit what you can do when you have $200 million or $300 million dollars to spend instead of the discipline former National Park Service Director Newton Drury enjoyed when he said, "We have no money, therefore we can do no harm."
Published on Monday, November 20, 2000 in the San Francisco Chronicle
David Brower on the Yosemite Valley Plan
by David Brower
http://www.commondreams.org/views/112000-105.htm
unquote
Ever since Mineral King...when the development there was halted...there's been a kinda tussle over things in the Sierra!...brb...
quote
Forest Service bows to Bush Administration and backslides on Emigrant Wilderness dams
The Stanislaus Forest, under political pressure from the Bush Administration, has recently decided to re-open the issue of whether or not to allow human-made checkdams in the Emigrant Wilderness to deteriorate and to eventually disappear, or to artificially maintain them.
What is at stake is not only the integrity of the native aquatic ecosystem impacted by these checkdams but also whether development projects should be allowed and tolerated inside designated wilderness. By allowing these structures to be "reconstructed" the Forest Service is saying that wilderness will be managed by special interest groups, not according to the intent of the Wilderness Act.
http://www.calwild.org/action/alert_022603.php
unquote
That's about Emigrant Meadow, which I hiked through in '73, and saw incongruously a small bus crossing in the distance on a dirt road!.....brb
wiki's Mineral King take...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disney's_Mineral_King_Ski_Resort#cite_note-MK-webcam-1
wiki's Emigrant Meadow...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emigrant_Wilderness
Sierra Club take on Valley Plan...
quote
Park Service Plans to Urbanize Yosemite
by Joyce M. Eden and Greg Adair
The coming six to eight months will shape the future of Yosemite National Park for the next century. Preservationists have now worked for one hundred years to push back the tide of human development in the Park, and particularly in Yosemite Valley. With these very goals in mind, Yosemite's General Management Plan (GMP) was drafted, with extensive public input, as a plan to decrease Yosemite's human development and increase ecological restoration.
http://lomaprieta.sierraclub.org/lp9906_Yosemite.html
brb...
quote
The National Park Service installed 10 interpretive wayside exhibits in key areas in the Valley. Areas selected were those that could be affected by actions included in the Draft Yosemite Valley Plan/SEIS, including Camp 4 (Sunnyside Campground), Lower Yosemite Falls, the concession stable, and Curry Village. The signs informed visitors of the potential changes that could occur at each location, and guided visitors to areas where they could receive more information.
http://www.nps.gov/archive/yose/planning/yvp/seis/vol_Ib_p2/chap5_1.html
unquote
NPS site...brb...try to see if it is up to date!!...well...it doesn't jump out..but it looks to be old...
brb...
quote
As many of you know, Plaintiffs Friends of Yosemite Valley prevailed in our lawsuit* against the 2005 Plan for the Merced River in Yosemite. The case has moved into its last phase. The Court will now order the National Park Service (NPS) to prepare a new plan for the Merced. This will be the third time a court has ordered Yosemite to prepare a legally adequate plan for the Merced. The Court will also now rule on our request for injunctive relief. That means that the Court will now order what may happen on the ground in Yosemite. Here is the schedule for the case before the US Federal Court, Eastern District, before the Honorable Anthony Iishi. Please mark your calendars with this important hearing date:
http://www.yosemitecampers.com/discus/messages/4400/3937.html?1179699889
unquote
That's a Friends of Yosemite thread...found with search: Judge Ishi Yosemite Valley Plan...
Judge has an interesting name!..brb...
quote
“I believe in capitalizing on the strengths of our leadership,” Mainella said. “Mike’s ability to implement the Giant Forest restoration, a project that took years of planning, was nothing short of miraculous. He is the man for the job of implementing the funded portion of the Yosemite Valley Plan.”
Mike Tollefson Named Yosemite National Park Superintendent
http://home.nps.gov/applications/release/Detail.cfm?ID=311
unquote...
Giant Forest...been there too...dwelling...brb..
quote
Years of planning, design, and construction are now converging into the realization of Colonel White’s vision. All commercial activity has been removed from Giant Forest. Overnight accommodations have been relocated outside the grove to Wuksachi Village. Demolition of 282 buildings in Giant Forest is complete, and ecological restoration of 231 acres is underway. The conversion of Giant Forest to a day use area is nearly complete.
http://www.nps.gov/archive/seki/snrm/gf/gf_index.htm
unquote
At that page it shows the little cabins that have been removed... a sidebyside before and after!...I worked repairing those little cabins...it was a wonder to change yellow light bulbs at night...the cabins the big trees...listening to the voices and seeing the activities of the campers..."How does one get a job here?"...I've had some of the best jobs ever anywhere....
quote
On these pages you will witness the dramatic transformation (see map) of the Giant Forest from city to forest.
unquote
brb...
quote
Yosemite officials want to see only pedestrians, bicyclists and photogenic wildlife intersecting near the thundering Sierra icon in the future.
But, before that happens, everyone will have to put up with construction dust over the next three years as the park service pours $140 million into perhaps the biggest remake of Yosemite Valley since the 1960s. Up to 300 workers will build everything from sewers to motel rooms.
The sunsets and the granite domes will remain, and the valley will be open to visitors throughout the construction process. But in a few years, you might not recognize the place.
"We're starting to shape what Yosemite Valley will look like many years from now," says Yosemite Superintendent Michael Tollefson.
http://www.yosemite.org/newsroom/clips2003/september/092103.htm
unquote
That's the Yosemite Association...which I pay dues to...that and Sierra Club and PCT...oh...the latter is over due!...
quote
The Pacific Crest Trail Association (PCTA) extends its congratulations to Tejon Ranch and the environmental community for collaborating on a monumental conservation plan.
http://www.pcta.org/general/news/tejon_ranch.asp
unquote
brb...
quote
And the far-reaching redevelopment of Yosemite Lodge, including a new Indian Cultural Center and some new rooms, is expected to kick off next year. By 2006, Northside Drive will be shifted south of Yosemite Lodge, and the busy intersection near Yosemite Falls will become part of a pedestrian promenade or trail.
unquote
from same YA page...they needn't have sounded so bubbly!...and it's kind of a 'party line'...I'd say...
brb...
searched the blogs...and found a blog page...
http://hikehalfdome.com/blog.html?cq=1&p=705
that has a link...
that doesn't work!...it's supposed to be the court documents...but that's a well centered blog!...
enough for tonight...I'll hunt up..down!...some more commentary tomorrow!
DavidDavid
Tuesday, May 13, 2008
The Plan
Well...while I'm sorting out what direction to go next...I'll have some thoughts to post about the Plan...the Plans for development in the Incomparable Valley...now...
right now a Judge has put a hold on everything...but on the web are documents which show what was...is... in the works...and after a solid year of wandering around the backyard in all weathers...I have a sense...well...a sense where the following pavements were going to go... and what they were going to cover up!....it is very hard to drill down through the jargon of the Plan...a walk along either side of the Creek from Wee Bridge to the confluence with the Merced...will pretty much give anyone an idea...and an appalling perception...of how callous the following is...
quote:
The proposed action would remove guest lodging and Lodge facility buildings from the Merced River 100-year floodplain. Remaining in the floodplain would be the realigned Northside Drive, registration parking lot, a multi-use paved trail, Lodge parking, overnight bus parking, and the sewage lift station. Upon removal of the guest lodging buildings (Hemlock, Maple, Alder, and Juniper), the maintenance buildings, Wellness Center, and miscellaneous buildings, the 100-year floodplain would be restored to near-natural flow conditions because the major obstacles to high flood flow would be removed. The roads and parking lots proposed for this area could negligibly affect flood flow, but these developments would not be expected to substantially alter the flow path of the flood waters because they would have low relief and would not be constructed on an embankment. As a result, the proposed action would locally improve the conditions of the 100-year floodplain by removing the major flow impediments.
unquote
"Remaining in the floodplain"....that's Owl Woods...paved over..."Northside drived south of the Lodge"....that's a new road turning south at Wee Bridge and crossing over the Creek...I think I know where...just North of the Deer House...on a New Bridge....it would follow the road that goes to the Deer House now...and comes across to somehow hook up again with Northside drive, which is currently closed because of a rock!...the roads and parking lot of course would "negligibly effect high water"....they're pavement after all...but what about what's been paved over!!....it goes on...
quote
The diversion dam located at the confluence of Yosemite Creek and the Merced River would be removed to restore the natural flood regime the Merced River within this reach. Once removed, high flood flow in the Merced River would be unimpeded to inundate portions of the floodplain not previously possible due to the presence of the diversion dam. Removing the diversion dam would return the affected portion of the floodplain to a more natural flow condition. In addition, the riprap revetment currently in place along Yosemite Creek would be removed to restore the natural flow regime along a short stretch of Yosemite Creek.
unquote
I'm not sure why the diversion channel is called a dam...and I dont know when the channel was made...right now water flows into it at daily high water...and flows backs out of it at daily low water...it has preserved a kindof peninsula that goes all the way to Ozone Beach...maybe that's the dam...it's not even noticeable most of the time...it's just a low area in the Forest...as for the rip rap in the Creek...this is silly...remove it and the Creek from the Falls all the way to the Merced will eroded into a disperse Delta...but of course that wouldn't happen if a road is running along the Creek...which is the point...the rip rap would be replaced by the road grading..
source of the quotes...
Chapter V: Merced Wild and Scenic River
http://www.nps.gov/archive/yose/planning/lodge/html/ylarp_ch5.htm
I dont know what is said or goes on in the public hearings...I do know they were busy cutting trees at the Wellness Center three Springs back...and were stopped in their tracks...which is where thing have stood...
There is no area that can be characterized as a 100 yearflood plain....for a few days each Spring there is High Water...I've seen it reach the foundation of the Chapel...but after a few days...it all drops back down...there's no ground water table to speak of in the Sierra...it's all granite...water just runs off...the flood of '97 was a flash flood...and not a terrific eroding force in the Valley...as it was down lower in the Merced canyon...took out the road there...it just floated away a lot of old buildings in the Valley...didn't do a thing to Housekeeping!...I've seen all of that area under water for a few days...but this 100 year flood plain is a refrain...and likely an effort to tie into the funds accumulated to deal with flooding...which are substantial...
The Merced and Tenaya Creek and Yosemite Creek are riprapped where ever they threaten to erode the banks at their turns...have a look at Sugar Pine Bridge...and Three Arch Bridge...whoever did the Bridges...and the riprap...did it beautifully...each Bridge is placed at 'world class views'....and though built with modern cement...the facades...the polygonal stone work..is beautiful...it's the same as at Tunnel View and the 120 Tunnels.
"and the sewage lift station"
I have no idea why it is where it is....and it often lets one know it is where it is!...right now the man hole covers in Cook's are underwater....and the Creek is maybe three feet below the Tiki Temple Outlet...it has a one way cover to anticipate submergence...as does the Temple...which gives it it's unique...Temple look!
There is a 'riparian' border to all the waterways...which should be the real defining "hundred year flood plain".....and over the years development has encroached on it....on one side of the Merced in the canyon is the road...and on the other the old railroad road bed...and there's a lot of riprap...and once into the Valley the roads are often right next to the Merced...can't be helped...the Valley is that narrow...and in truth the road bed has contained the Merced....it's trying to erode right back down a few thousand feet where it was a few thousands of years ago, after all!...but the 'riparian' border has to be respected...scurpulously...it's where all the critters live...
"major obsticles to high flood will have been removed"
Some of the thinking in these plans are just nuts!....there's nothing going to stop the Merced from flooding when conditions are such like in '97.
DavidDavid
right now a Judge has put a hold on everything...but on the web are documents which show what was...is... in the works...and after a solid year of wandering around the backyard in all weathers...I have a sense...well...a sense where the following pavements were going to go... and what they were going to cover up!....it is very hard to drill down through the jargon of the Plan...a walk along either side of the Creek from Wee Bridge to the confluence with the Merced...will pretty much give anyone an idea...and an appalling perception...of how callous the following is...
quote:
The proposed action would remove guest lodging and Lodge facility buildings from the Merced River 100-year floodplain. Remaining in the floodplain would be the realigned Northside Drive, registration parking lot, a multi-use paved trail, Lodge parking, overnight bus parking, and the sewage lift station. Upon removal of the guest lodging buildings (Hemlock, Maple, Alder, and Juniper), the maintenance buildings, Wellness Center, and miscellaneous buildings, the 100-year floodplain would be restored to near-natural flow conditions because the major obstacles to high flood flow would be removed. The roads and parking lots proposed for this area could negligibly affect flood flow, but these developments would not be expected to substantially alter the flow path of the flood waters because they would have low relief and would not be constructed on an embankment. As a result, the proposed action would locally improve the conditions of the 100-year floodplain by removing the major flow impediments.
unquote
"Remaining in the floodplain"....that's Owl Woods...paved over..."Northside drived south of the Lodge"....that's a new road turning south at Wee Bridge and crossing over the Creek...I think I know where...just North of the Deer House...on a New Bridge....it would follow the road that goes to the Deer House now...and comes across to somehow hook up again with Northside drive, which is currently closed because of a rock!...the roads and parking lot of course would "negligibly effect high water"....they're pavement after all...but what about what's been paved over!!....it goes on...
quote
The diversion dam located at the confluence of Yosemite Creek and the Merced River would be removed to restore the natural flood regime the Merced River within this reach. Once removed, high flood flow in the Merced River would be unimpeded to inundate portions of the floodplain not previously possible due to the presence of the diversion dam. Removing the diversion dam would return the affected portion of the floodplain to a more natural flow condition. In addition, the riprap revetment currently in place along Yosemite Creek would be removed to restore the natural flow regime along a short stretch of Yosemite Creek.
unquote
I'm not sure why the diversion channel is called a dam...and I dont know when the channel was made...right now water flows into it at daily high water...and flows backs out of it at daily low water...it has preserved a kindof peninsula that goes all the way to Ozone Beach...maybe that's the dam...it's not even noticeable most of the time...it's just a low area in the Forest...as for the rip rap in the Creek...this is silly...remove it and the Creek from the Falls all the way to the Merced will eroded into a disperse Delta...but of course that wouldn't happen if a road is running along the Creek...which is the point...the rip rap would be replaced by the road grading..
source of the quotes...
Chapter V: Merced Wild and Scenic River
http://www.nps.gov/archive/yose/planning/lodge/html/ylarp_ch5.htm
I dont know what is said or goes on in the public hearings...I do know they were busy cutting trees at the Wellness Center three Springs back...and were stopped in their tracks...which is where thing have stood...
There is no area that can be characterized as a 100 yearflood plain....for a few days each Spring there is High Water...I've seen it reach the foundation of the Chapel...but after a few days...it all drops back down...there's no ground water table to speak of in the Sierra...it's all granite...water just runs off...the flood of '97 was a flash flood...and not a terrific eroding force in the Valley...as it was down lower in the Merced canyon...took out the road there...it just floated away a lot of old buildings in the Valley...didn't do a thing to Housekeeping!...I've seen all of that area under water for a few days...but this 100 year flood plain is a refrain...and likely an effort to tie into the funds accumulated to deal with flooding...which are substantial...
The Merced and Tenaya Creek and Yosemite Creek are riprapped where ever they threaten to erode the banks at their turns...have a look at Sugar Pine Bridge...and Three Arch Bridge...whoever did the Bridges...and the riprap...did it beautifully...each Bridge is placed at 'world class views'....and though built with modern cement...the facades...the polygonal stone work..is beautiful...it's the same as at Tunnel View and the 120 Tunnels.
"and the sewage lift station"
I have no idea why it is where it is....and it often lets one know it is where it is!...right now the man hole covers in Cook's are underwater....and the Creek is maybe three feet below the Tiki Temple Outlet...it has a one way cover to anticipate submergence...as does the Temple...which gives it it's unique...Temple look!
There is a 'riparian' border to all the waterways...which should be the real defining "hundred year flood plain".....and over the years development has encroached on it....on one side of the Merced in the canyon is the road...and on the other the old railroad road bed...and there's a lot of riprap...and once into the Valley the roads are often right next to the Merced...can't be helped...the Valley is that narrow...and in truth the road bed has contained the Merced....it's trying to erode right back down a few thousand feet where it was a few thousands of years ago, after all!...but the 'riparian' border has to be respected...scurpulously...it's where all the critters live...
"major obsticles to high flood will have been removed"
Some of the thinking in these plans are just nuts!....there's nothing going to stop the Merced from flooding when conditions are such like in '97.
DavidDavid
Friday, May 9, 2008
Year Blogs
I...dont have a direction any more...no compass point for the blog...insomuch I've pretty much wrapped up the Souvenir...ekphrasis...posts...I thought to run them out for a year...and overshot a bit...
Doing year blogs...y'know...a post everyday for a year...has become a kinda thing to do...though I had no idea such things were in the works when I started...mostly it looks to be photogs over in sites like Flkr that are tasking themselves with doing a photo a day...
In my art classes a refrain by the teacher was that each of us should keep a sketch journal...doing a sketch a day...I did do that...for one semester...and it was just one or two days a week...but I have the journal still...a kinda treasure...and since it has so much to do with being how I got from there to here...I'll scan it in...and maybe task myself for real that sketch a day ordeal!
For now Tree in the Door posts will be kinda sporadic...I have some mundane tasks to do...like housecleaning...going to the Optometrist..and a Giants baseball game next week!
Fauna and Flora...as I suspected it would..has taken on a life of it's own..."It tasks me, Ahab!"
One should be so lucky to have such a task!..
quote
By heavens man, we are turned round and round in this world, like yonder windlass, and fate is the handspike.
unquote
DavidDavid
'
Doing year blogs...y'know...a post everyday for a year...has become a kinda thing to do...though I had no idea such things were in the works when I started...mostly it looks to be photogs over in sites like Flkr that are tasking themselves with doing a photo a day...
In my art classes a refrain by the teacher was that each of us should keep a sketch journal...doing a sketch a day...I did do that...for one semester...and it was just one or two days a week...but I have the journal still...a kinda treasure...and since it has so much to do with being how I got from there to here...I'll scan it in...and maybe task myself for real that sketch a day ordeal!
For now Tree in the Door posts will be kinda sporadic...I have some mundane tasks to do...like housecleaning...going to the Optometrist..and a Giants baseball game next week!
Fauna and Flora...as I suspected it would..has taken on a life of it's own..."It tasks me, Ahab!"
One should be so lucky to have such a task!..
quote
By heavens man, we are turned round and round in this world, like yonder windlass, and fate is the handspike.
unquote
DavidDavid
'
Thursday, May 8, 2008
Ussher Time Line
I got another assignment...look up Ussher's Time Line...there's some question of who comes first...the Sumerian tale of Noah...well...they're Noah...or the Jewish Noah...
PBS story on Hot Dogs..now NOVA with tale of the four winged dinosaur...a must see...Mirco Raptor...think that's it...
but to Ussher...brb...
well...I knew of this...and it's fun to read!...but not much help with Noah...2348BC
brb...the Sumerian story look to be in 2ooo bc or so...but cant nail it down...
and here on amazon is the time chart...
I'll have to look close at the Brown Creepers...
DavidDavid
Wednesday, May 7, 2008
Adam and Eve
NBA was on...now Friends...
I thought a bit on Adam's and Eve's tombs...looked them up before...part of a Wahabi web search back during 911 aftermath...brb...
quote
Ibn Jubayr (twelfth century) mentions only an old dome, “built upon the place where Eve stopped on the way to Meccah.” Yet Al-Idrisi (A.D. 1154) declares Eve’s grave to be at Jeddah. Abd al-Karim (1742) compares it to a parterre, with a little dome in the centre, and the extremities ending in barriers of palisades; the circumference was a hundred and ninety of his steps. In Rooke’s Travels we are told that the tomb is twenty feet long. Ali Bey, who twice visited Jeddah, makes no allusion to it; we may therefore conclude that it had been destroyed by the Wahhabis. Burckhardt, who, I need scarcely say, has been carefully copied by our popular authors, was informed that it was a “rude structure of stone, about four feet in length, two or three feet in height, and as many in breadth”; thus resembling the tomb of Noah, seen in the valley of Al-Buka’a in Syria. Bruce writes: “Two days’ journey from this place (? Meccah or Jeddah) Eve’s grave, of green sods, about fifty yards in length, is shown to this day”; but the great traveller probably never issued from the town-gates. And Sir W. Harris, who could not have visited the Holy Place, repeats, in 1840, that Eve’s grave of green sod is still shown on the barren shore of the Red Sea.” The present structure is clearly modern; anciently, I was told at Jeddah, the sepulchre consisted of a stone at the head, a second at the feet, and the navel-dome.
The idol of Jeddah, in the days of Arab litholatry, was called Sakhrah Tawilah, the Long Stone. May not this stone of Eve be the Moslemized revival of the old idolatry? It is to be observed that the Arabs, if the tombs be admitted as evidence, are inconsistent in their dimensions of the patriarchal stature. The sepulchre of Adam at the Masjid al-Khayf is, like that of Eve, gigantic. That of Noah at Al-Buka’a is a bit of Aqueduct thirty-eight paces long by one and a half wide. Job’s tomb near Hulah (seven parasangs from Kerbela) is small. I have not seen the grave of Moses (south-east of the Red Sea), which is becoming known by the bitumen cups there sold to pilgrims. But Aaron’s sepulchre in the Sinaitic peninsula is of moderate dimensions.
The idol of Jeddah, in the days of Arab litholatry, was called Sakhrah Tawilah, the Long Stone. May not this stone of Eve be the Moslemized revival of the old idolatry? It is to be observed that the Arabs, if the tombs be admitted as evidence, are inconsistent in their dimensions of the patriarchal stature. The sepulchre of Adam at the Masjid al-Khayf is, like that of Eve, gigantic. That of Noah at Al-Buka’a is a bit of Aqueduct thirty-eight paces long by one and a half wide. Job’s tomb near Hulah (seven parasangs from Kerbela) is small. I have not seen the grave of Moses (south-east of the Red Sea), which is becoming known by the bitumen cups there sold to pilgrims. But Aaron’s sepulchre in the Sinaitic peninsula is of moderate dimensions.
Richard Burton
Pilgrimage to Al-Madinah and Meccah
Pilgrimage to Al-Madinah and Meccah
lemesee what Sir Richard says about the Kaaba...brb...
quote
So the Persian poet Khakani addresses these two buildings:—
“O Ka’abah, thou traveller of the heavens!”
“O Ka’abah, thou traveller of the heavens!”
“O Venus, thou fire of the world!”
and
And Al-Shahristani informs us that the Arab philosophers believed this sevenfold circumambulation to be symbolical of the motion of the planets round the sun.
unquote
Sir Richard seems to have visited the place in the company of 'Kim'!
but back to Adam and Eve and their tombs...
quote
To His Majesty Ibn Saud, warlike Sultan of Nejd and King of the Hejaz, came tidings last week of his flourishing son the Amir Faisal, 19-year-old Viceroy of the Hejaz. The tidings were conveyed 500 miles by motor caravan from the Red Sea town of Jidda in the Hejaz, to the Sultan's inland capital, Riyadh, in Nejd. There was it made known that the enlightened son & Viceroy had finally caused to be obliterated that notorious imposture, "The Tomb of Mother Eve," at Jidda.
Quaint, but probably constructed within the last millenium, the bogus "tomb" was an enclosure whose walls marked the outline of a supposedly buried female of gigantic stature. At the head was a raised mound. Midway in the enclosure rose a small whitewashed dome, protecting from the elements a mystic black stone, El Surrah.
Doubtless the young Viceroy Faisal has learned on his two recent trips to England that El Surrah, the navel, is taboo among moderns. Last week he could point with pride to the demolition of the entire "tomb," and to the removal among the debris of El Surrah.
Quaint, but probably constructed within the last millenium, the bogus "tomb" was an enclosure whose walls marked the outline of a supposedly buried female of gigantic stature. At the head was a raised mound. Midway in the enclosure rose a small whitewashed dome, protecting from the elements a mystic black stone, El Surrah.
Doubtless the young Viceroy Faisal has learned on his two recent trips to England that El Surrah, the navel, is taboo among moderns. Last week he could point with pride to the demolition of the entire "tomb," and to the removal among the debris of El Surrah.
Time
El Surrah?
quote
The tomb is a walled enclosure said to represent the dimensions of the body, about 200 paces long and 15 ft. broad. At the head is a small erection where gifts are deposited, and rather more than half-way down a whitewashed dome encloses a small dark chapel within which is the black stone known as El Surrah, the navel. The grave of Eve is mentioned by Edrisi, but except the black stone nothing bears any aspect of antiquity (see Burton's Pilgrimage, vol. ii.).
unquote
That last account from 1911!
brb...
This site has a tour account of Jeddah...and a bit on Eve's tomb...and a pic of a sculpture that looks like the calligraphy on Idries Shah's The Sufis...apparently a common imagery!
well..where was Adam buried?...
this site has list!
quote
There are at least two explanations for the etymology of the name 'Jeddah'. One is that name means "seashore," since Jeddah is located along the Red Sea coast and is Saudi Arabia's most important commercial port. The more common account has it that the name is derived from jaddah, the Arabic word for "grandmother". According to eastern folk belief, the tomb of Eve (21°29′31″N 39°11′24″E / 21.49194, 39.19), considered the grandmother of humanity, is located in Jeddah. The supposed "Eve Grave" was sealed with concrete by the religious authorities in 1975 as a result of some Muslim pilgrims breaking Islamic tradition by praying at Eve's tomb.
unquote
Adam and Eve by Gustave Klimt
Well...a brief note...this "Souvenir"....is a year old...actually the first post was March 22...but...if I have it right!...May 8 I posted Pocket Pair...which got things started...thought to do a post with beeps and whistles...a music video of 99 Red Balloons...with a kaleidoscope of the images I've snagged...someones probably done something similar...save me the work...brb...
search youtube: 99 red balloons
Oh!...'Pocket Pair' was April 8...well...I thought to call it all a "Year and a Day"...which can be modified to..."A Year and a Month"...in the Incomparable Valley...
DavidDavid
Tuesday, May 6, 2008
The Cube Ship
http://simplymissional.com/2008/05/06/pray-for-mynamar/
Ziusudra...brb....here's wiki...the King is the Sumerian "Noah"...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ziusudra
wiki doesn't give the dimensions of the ship...which are in the Children of Noah book...and I'm trying to confirm them...brb...another take...
http://www.ancientworlds.net/aw/Post/569052
but no dimensions...brb...
quote
O man of Shuruppak, son of Ubartutu: Tear down the house and build a boat! Abandon wealth and seek living beings! Spurn possessions and keep alive living beings! Make all living beings go up into the boat. The boat which you are to build, its dimensions must measure equal to each other: its length must correspond to its width. Roof it over like the Apsu.
and
On the fifth day I laid out her exterior.It was a field in area,its walls were each 10 times 12 cubits in height,the sides of its top were of equal length, 10 times It cubits each.I laid out its (interior) structure and drew a picture of it (?).I provided it with six decks,thus dividing it into seven (levels).
http://www.ancienttexts.org/library/mesopotamian/gilgamesh/tab11.htm
unquote
What caught my eye here is that the Ark...is a cube...and Patai says this is nonsense and goes on to show how Noah's Ark has standard ship proportions...though very large!...brb...well...it's catches other writer's attention too...
quote
The Old Testament describes it as a rectangular box with straight sides, no bow, no keel or hull. In fact the Hebrew word used for the ship is that of a box or container. However, the Hebrews can be excused for their preposterous interpretation since they were a land-locked people and had little, if any, experience with ships.
But that is no excuse for the description of the Ark in the Sumerian account of the Deluge. There is is depicted as a cube, if the translators are to be believed. This is not very convincing in view of the fact that the Mesopotamians were a sea-going nation. Sumerians and later peoples were well acquainted with the principles of ship building and seaworthiness. All Sumerian cities had access to the sea and sea-going ships are often described at anchor at these Sumerian ports.
Obviously, there is something amiss in the Sumerian accounts or in the translation and interpretation of the text that is provided. For a sea-going people to describe the Ark as a cube is completely nonsensical.
and
Unlike the three decks of the ark of Noah, the ark of Utnapishtim has seven decks and is then divided into nine sections or compartments. It had a door and some sort of window as well. Traditional translations reports the craft as being an exact cube, with the height, length, and width each being 120 cubits. Since the Akkadian cubit was 20 inches [46 centimeters], the craft would be a perfect cube 200 feet [72 meters] on each side.
and
In modern terms we would describe them as fuel rods since they were associated with the propulsion system of a ship. In this sense, they could be either fuel rods inserted into a nuclear reactor in order to control its energy output or, more probably, tubes or rods filled with solid propellant used in some sort of rocket propulsion system.
FLYING SERPENTS AND DRAGONS
By R. A. Boulay ©1990
Editorial Comments By Roberto Solàrion ©1997
*
Chapter 13
WAS NOAH'S ARK A SAUCER-SHAPED SUBMERSIBLE?
http://www.blogger.com/post-create.g?blogID=1353183080129161917
well...the author is postulating that the Ark was a spaceship....a many time told tale in Science Fiction...a Generation Ship....but their version seems to be an earthbound saucer...but to continue now for a 'cube ship'...but first..a look at the "People of the Ship"...cube...brb...well...I snagged it from ebay...the cover to Idries Shah's The Sufis....he explains inside that the calligraphy represents in "concrete poem" fashion people aboard a ship...dont have the book...oh..I'll have to retrieve it from ebay...but anyway...there was this notion of either people on a ship..or people waiting for the return of a ship..or something...but..brb...
oh...Hamlet's Mill is on the web...
quote
The first ark was built by Utnapishtim in the Sumerian myth; one learns in different ways that it was a cube-a modest one, measuring 60 x 60 x 60 fathoms, which represents the unit in the sexagesimal system where 60 is written as 1. In another version, there is no ark, just a cubic stone, upon which rests a pillar which reaches from earth to heaven. The stone, cubic or not, is lying under a cedar, or an oak, ready to let loose a flood, without obvious reasons.
Confusing as it is, this seems to provide the new theme. In Jewish legends, it is told that "since the ark disappeared there was a stone in its place. . . which was called foundation stone." It was called foundation stone "because from it the world was founded [or started]." And it is said to lie above the Waters that are below the Holy of Holies.
220
This might look like a dream sequence, but it is buttressed by a very substantial tradition, taken up by the Jews but to be found also in Finno-Ugrian tradition [n17 L. Ginzberg, The Legends of the Jews (1954), vol. 4, p. 96; cf. also vol. 1, p. 12; vol. 5, p. 14. We are indebted to Irvin N. Asher for the quotation, as well as for the ones from Jastrow that follow. Cf. V. J. Mansikka, "Der blaue Stein," FUF 11 (1911), p. 2.]. The Jewish story then goes on:
skip and
When David was digging the foundations of the Temple, a shard was found at a depth of 1500 cubits. David was about to lift it when the shard exclaimed: "Thou canst not do it." "Why not?" asked David. "Because I rest upon the abyss." "Since when?" "Since the hour in which the voice of God was heard to utter the words from Sinai, 'I am the Lord, your God,' causing the world to quake and sink into the Abyss. I lie here to cover up the Abyss."
The humble little shard was brought in by pious legend to try to say that what counted was the power of the Holy Name. But the real thing was the cube: either as Utnapishtim's ark or, in other versions, as a stone upon which rests a pillar which reaches from earth to heaven. Even Christ is compared to "a cube-shaped mountain, upon which a tower is erected." [n20 In the ninth simile of the "Pastor of Hermas," according to F. Kampers (Vom Werdegange der abendlandischen Kaisermystik [1924], p. 53).]. Hocart writes that "the Sinhalese frequently placed inside their topes a square stone representing Meru. If they placed in the center of a tope a stone representing the center of the world it must have been that they took the tope to represent the world" [n21 Kingship, p. 179 (quoted by P. Mus, Barabudur [1935], p. 108, n. 1).]—which goes without saying. But it is said otherwise that this stone, the foundation stone, lies under a great tree, and that from under the stone "a wave rose up to the sky."
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/hamlets_mill/hamletmill15.htm
unquote
There is a famous cube space ship in the Star Trek story...the dreaded Borg ship...I told a friend once..."Those first episodes about the Borg are one of the few time that I've seen this science ficiton tale have real menace in it."brb...
here's some generation ships...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generation_ship
missing from the list is...
quote
In the savage world of the Greene tribe, losing a woman was unforgivable, and Roy had lost his while hunting in the jungle called "the ponics". Disgraced, isolated, he joined the disreputable priest Marapper on a forbidden expedition through Deadways to find the legendary land of Forwards. They were to meet mutants, giants, regimented rats and telepathic rabbits, and the fabled Outsiders. Finally they would confront a secret kept hidden for 23 generations - a secret whose discovery would reveal their origins and destiny even as it destroyed their world!
http://www.fantasticfiction.co.uk/a/brian-aldiss/starship.htm
unquote
Prominant in that story is how general knowledge of the environment...where they actually are...has become partly forgotten and garbled...
Suffice to say that the KAABA Cube may represent Noah's Ark...and the whole tale a garbled memory of a spaceship.
Add to this is that monotheism is self similar to ship board hierarchy..the captain officers crew passengers...and the layout of churches...pews with an alter with priest...to airliners...the priest with back to the congregation...praying to the alter...the alter often with elaborate decoration...to pilots before their controls....this to say Churches resemble ships...the priesthoods captain and ship crew...curiously...I grew up going to a Lutheran Protestant church, which, in memory of Viking Scandanavian heritage, had a roof that looked like a planked Viking ship turned upside down...I used to look up at the ceiling and count the planks during services!
The Earth itself is of course the Ark floating in Space....something that was garbled until Apollo 11 Earthrise from Moon pic!
Apsu?..brb...
quote
Lakes, springs, rivers, wells, and other sources of fresh water were thought to draw their water from the apsû.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aps%C3%BB
unquote
And a thread page that wonders about the same thing!...
quote
Now, Ea (Enki) does dwell, in myths, _in the deep_ (the depths of the Apsu, the freshwater ocean the earth floats upon, in his rectangular cubicle or Apsu dwelling). I thus understand, the Mesopotamian Noah is in a sense dwelling in a seaworthy model of Ea's Apsu house. While in this model of Ea's dwelling, perhaps he was envisioned as being under Ea's divine protection from the flood ?
https://listhost.uchicago.edu/pipermail/ane/2005-August/019284.html
unquote
DavidDavid
Ziusudra...brb....here's wiki...the King is the Sumerian "Noah"...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ziusudra
wiki doesn't give the dimensions of the ship...which are in the Children of Noah book...and I'm trying to confirm them...brb...another take...
http://www.ancientworlds.net/aw/Post/569052
but no dimensions...brb...
quote
O man of Shuruppak, son of Ubartutu: Tear down the house and build a boat! Abandon wealth and seek living beings! Spurn possessions and keep alive living beings! Make all living beings go up into the boat. The boat which you are to build, its dimensions must measure equal to each other: its length must correspond to its width. Roof it over like the Apsu.
and
On the fifth day I laid out her exterior.It was a field in area,its walls were each 10 times 12 cubits in height,the sides of its top were of equal length, 10 times It cubits each.I laid out its (interior) structure and drew a picture of it (?).I provided it with six decks,thus dividing it into seven (levels).
http://www.ancienttexts.org/library/mesopotamian/gilgamesh/tab11.htm
unquote
What caught my eye here is that the Ark...is a cube...and Patai says this is nonsense and goes on to show how Noah's Ark has standard ship proportions...though very large!...brb...well...it's catches other writer's attention too...
quote
The Old Testament describes it as a rectangular box with straight sides, no bow, no keel or hull. In fact the Hebrew word used for the ship is that of a box or container. However, the Hebrews can be excused for their preposterous interpretation since they were a land-locked people and had little, if any, experience with ships.
But that is no excuse for the description of the Ark in the Sumerian account of the Deluge. There is is depicted as a cube, if the translators are to be believed. This is not very convincing in view of the fact that the Mesopotamians were a sea-going nation. Sumerians and later peoples were well acquainted with the principles of ship building and seaworthiness. All Sumerian cities had access to the sea and sea-going ships are often described at anchor at these Sumerian ports.
Obviously, there is something amiss in the Sumerian accounts or in the translation and interpretation of the text that is provided. For a sea-going people to describe the Ark as a cube is completely nonsensical.
and
Unlike the three decks of the ark of Noah, the ark of Utnapishtim has seven decks and is then divided into nine sections or compartments. It had a door and some sort of window as well. Traditional translations reports the craft as being an exact cube, with the height, length, and width each being 120 cubits. Since the Akkadian cubit was 20 inches [46 centimeters], the craft would be a perfect cube 200 feet [72 meters] on each side.
and
In modern terms we would describe them as fuel rods since they were associated with the propulsion system of a ship. In this sense, they could be either fuel rods inserted into a nuclear reactor in order to control its energy output or, more probably, tubes or rods filled with solid propellant used in some sort of rocket propulsion system.
FLYING SERPENTS AND DRAGONS
By R. A. Boulay ©1990
Editorial Comments By Roberto Solàrion ©1997
*
Chapter 13
WAS NOAH'S ARK A SAUCER-SHAPED SUBMERSIBLE?
http://www.blogger.com/post-create.g?blogID=1353183080129161917
well...the author is postulating that the Ark was a spaceship....a many time told tale in Science Fiction...a Generation Ship....but their version seems to be an earthbound saucer...but to continue now for a 'cube ship'...but first..a look at the "People of the Ship"...cube...brb...well...I snagged it from ebay...the cover to Idries Shah's The Sufis....he explains inside that the calligraphy represents in "concrete poem" fashion people aboard a ship...dont have the book...oh..I'll have to retrieve it from ebay...but anyway...there was this notion of either people on a ship..or people waiting for the return of a ship..or something...but..brb...
oh...Hamlet's Mill is on the web...
quote
The first ark was built by Utnapishtim in the Sumerian myth; one learns in different ways that it was a cube-a modest one, measuring 60 x 60 x 60 fathoms, which represents the unit in the sexagesimal system where 60 is written as 1. In another version, there is no ark, just a cubic stone, upon which rests a pillar which reaches from earth to heaven. The stone, cubic or not, is lying under a cedar, or an oak, ready to let loose a flood, without obvious reasons.
Confusing as it is, this seems to provide the new theme. In Jewish legends, it is told that "since the ark disappeared there was a stone in its place. . . which was called foundation stone." It was called foundation stone "because from it the world was founded [or started]." And it is said to lie above the Waters that are below the Holy of Holies.
220
This might look like a dream sequence, but it is buttressed by a very substantial tradition, taken up by the Jews but to be found also in Finno-Ugrian tradition [n17 L. Ginzberg, The Legends of the Jews (1954), vol. 4, p. 96; cf. also vol. 1, p. 12; vol. 5, p. 14. We are indebted to Irvin N. Asher for the quotation, as well as for the ones from Jastrow that follow. Cf. V. J. Mansikka, "Der blaue Stein," FUF 11 (1911), p. 2.]. The Jewish story then goes on:
skip and
When David was digging the foundations of the Temple, a shard was found at a depth of 1500 cubits. David was about to lift it when the shard exclaimed: "Thou canst not do it." "Why not?" asked David. "Because I rest upon the abyss." "Since when?" "Since the hour in which the voice of God was heard to utter the words from Sinai, 'I am the Lord, your God,' causing the world to quake and sink into the Abyss. I lie here to cover up the Abyss."
The humble little shard was brought in by pious legend to try to say that what counted was the power of the Holy Name. But the real thing was the cube: either as Utnapishtim's ark or, in other versions, as a stone upon which rests a pillar which reaches from earth to heaven. Even Christ is compared to "a cube-shaped mountain, upon which a tower is erected." [n20 In the ninth simile of the "Pastor of Hermas," according to F. Kampers (Vom Werdegange der abendlandischen Kaisermystik [1924], p. 53).]. Hocart writes that "the Sinhalese frequently placed inside their topes a square stone representing Meru. If they placed in the center of a tope a stone representing the center of the world it must have been that they took the tope to represent the world" [n21 Kingship, p. 179 (quoted by P. Mus, Barabudur [1935], p. 108, n. 1).]—which goes without saying. But it is said otherwise that this stone, the foundation stone, lies under a great tree, and that from under the stone "a wave rose up to the sky."
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/hamlets_mill/hamletmill15.htm
unquote
There is a famous cube space ship in the Star Trek story...the dreaded Borg ship...I told a friend once..."Those first episodes about the Borg are one of the few time that I've seen this science ficiton tale have real menace in it."brb...
here's some generation ships...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generation_ship
missing from the list is...
quote
In the savage world of the Greene tribe, losing a woman was unforgivable, and Roy had lost his while hunting in the jungle called "the ponics". Disgraced, isolated, he joined the disreputable priest Marapper on a forbidden expedition through Deadways to find the legendary land of Forwards. They were to meet mutants, giants, regimented rats and telepathic rabbits, and the fabled Outsiders. Finally they would confront a secret kept hidden for 23 generations - a secret whose discovery would reveal their origins and destiny even as it destroyed their world!
http://www.fantasticfiction.co.uk/a/brian-aldiss/starship.htm
unquote
Prominant in that story is how general knowledge of the environment...where they actually are...has become partly forgotten and garbled...
Suffice to say that the KAABA Cube may represent Noah's Ark...and the whole tale a garbled memory of a spaceship.
Add to this is that monotheism is self similar to ship board hierarchy..the captain officers crew passengers...and the layout of churches...pews with an alter with priest...to airliners...the priest with back to the congregation...praying to the alter...the alter often with elaborate decoration...to pilots before their controls....this to say Churches resemble ships...the priesthoods captain and ship crew...curiously...I grew up going to a Lutheran Protestant church, which, in memory of Viking Scandanavian heritage, had a roof that looked like a planked Viking ship turned upside down...I used to look up at the ceiling and count the planks during services!
The Earth itself is of course the Ark floating in Space....something that was garbled until Apollo 11 Earthrise from Moon pic!
Apsu?..brb...
quote
Lakes, springs, rivers, wells, and other sources of fresh water were thought to draw their water from the apsû.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aps%C3%BB
unquote
And a thread page that wonders about the same thing!...
quote
Now, Ea (Enki) does dwell, in myths, _in the deep_ (the depths of the Apsu, the freshwater ocean the earth floats upon, in his rectangular cubicle or Apsu dwelling). I thus understand, the Mesopotamian Noah is in a sense dwelling in a seaworthy model of Ea's Apsu house. While in this model of Ea's dwelling, perhaps he was envisioned as being under Ea's divine protection from the flood ?
https://listhost.uchicago.edu/pipermail/ane/2005-August/019284.html
unquote
DavidDavid
Monday, May 5, 2008
Ships of Tarshish
The lawyer show...Law and Order...was on....animal rights trial...defense was animals have rights and so can be justifiably defended...defendant stole monkeys from lab and one bit someone...and the experimental virus in the monkey caused the victim's death...well...that was all a complicated forum to try and come to grips with...'do animals have a soul?'....comparing the dilemma to the plight of American slaves didn't win the case!...the prosecution pointed out the rats carrying bubonic plague are killed mercilessly...and that's a good point....people do have the 'right' to defend themselves against menacing animals...and plants...and bugs and viruses...and surely these all...indeed all Nature...shows little regard for human suffering...which...is one of the big mysteries!...when I come to this point I always think of the movie where the vacationing family finds Bigfoot and brings him home...at first they are fearful...and cruel...but come to know the big fella...and become fast friends...brb...
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0092657/
Often in war the enemy is "demonized"....seen as menacing animals...
quote
During World War I, the German threat was depicted as a mad, marauding gorilla with a bloody club.
http://abcnews.go.com/International/story?id=79071
unquote
If I remember right...Diane Fosse did much to try and elevate our opinion of gorillas!
I think animal planet is on now...and appropriately they are eradicating rats!...and killer bees and roaches...
but to the Ships of Tarshish...the book 'Children of Noah'...came...and I've just read the intros and preface so far....but took note of Tarshish...I have some 'theories' about all this!...but will wait to read the whole book...brb...
for goodness sake...there's a kinda 'save the children' like charity to provide passage for Soviet Jews to come to Israel...and uses passages from Ezekiel and Isaiah...proclaiming prophecies are coming true...and you can contribute!...
http://www.tarshish.org.il/Tarshish%20Ship.htm
but that's a whole 'nother thing...brb...
quote
As a result of creating the Ships of Antiquity I have concluded that probably no other technology in the history of man has been more important to the spread of civilization, culture and trade in the world than that of the seafaring ship.
Ancient Ships: The Ships of Antiquity
Ancient Ships in art history: The navy of King Solomon and Isreal
http://www.artsales.com/ARTistory/Ancient_Ships/11_solomons_navy.html
unquote
a nice page!!
That's kinda my thought too!...and was working with it in the canoe posts...anyway...for later...oh...the show had the Ghandi quote...brb...
quote
“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated”
Ghandi
http://thinkexist.com/quotation/the_greatness_of_a_nation_and_its_moral_progress/189870.html
unquote
on the TV...
They're giggling doing the roaches...
Do you kill them?
I never kill them..I just send them on their merry way...
quote
The pioneer immigrants brought their foul European diseases with them. Aboard their ships, filthy water and human and animal wastes sloshed around in the bilges for a month or more. Men and women who were healthy when they left Europe were sick when they landed —not only from malnutrition but also from infections picked up at sea. Some, such as smallpox, malaria and measles, proved effective biological-warfare weapons, ravaging the Indians, who had no immunity against them. But most of the disease-causing microbes of the Old World took readily to the fertile soil of the New World, and so did the insects and vermin that carry them. The result: for fully three centuries, North America was scourged by deadly epidemics.
Plagues of the Past
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,914554,00.html?promoid=googlep
unquote
DavidDavid
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